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  1. #1
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    Question Outsourcing...It's contribution to America's woes

    It is truly astounding to me, why we have allowed greedy CEOs to continue this outsourcing trend unabated without concern for it's long-term ramifications to this country.
    I am not against some outsourcing. I think they are times when it cannot be avoided on a short term basis. It does not speak well of the brain-trust however, when they cannot forsee that revenue loss to the American worker, is money not available to spend advancing this great nation. The potential for long-term growth and stability in industry and infrastructure is severely hampered by taking this nearsighted approach.
    Fifteen years ago when the wheels of outsourcing really started rolling, I looked at it and saw it's ability for a negative outcome if not done at moderate levels. The question is: Why couldn't they? No longer was balance needed in their opinion. Profitable companies were allowed to close, in many cases laying-off the entire workforce (many of whom had a hand in building said companies). These greedy companies would then emerge a few weeks later in cheap labor markets. One hundred percent profit was not enough, greed and three hundred percent was better and justfied in their mind....regardless of the long-term cost. Once it was allowed without penalty by government, the rest followed as they called it..... "in an attempt to compete globally". We, the workers were the losers.
    As I said earlier in this post, "I am not against some outsourcing"...they are indeed times when it cannot be avoided. I do however, believe that oversight is needed to regulate the loss of American jobs and education potential. We've seen that if allowed CEOs will ravage and sack "the nest" without regard for the growth potential therein. I believe it is vital to impose stiff tariff on any U.S company which takes this path of firing U.S workers for cheap labor markets. You may say that "they'll just pass on the cost". While that maybe true, their prices will reflect this increase and be comparable to locally produced goods from companies manufacturing here. If tariffs are put in place, it will make the offenders think twice about moving, since they won't benefit by doing so.
    No U.S based company should be allowed to fully outsource. Those that do some outsourcing, should be limited based on a percentage of the overall workforce. There should also be a tax penalty for every job outsourced. This is about long-term preservation of this country's workforce. I advocate tax breaks for any company willing to keep Americans employed. I believe there needs to be a system in place to stem these loses.

    Your thoughts!!!
    Last edited by APC900; 09-29-2009 at 12:03 PM.
    DoubleT

  2. #2
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    Thumbs down Bubba Sez... WTF APC

    Quote Originally Posted by APC900 View Post
    It's truly astonishing that we as a country, have allowed greedy CEOs to continue this outsourcing trend un-abated, without concern for it's long-term ramifications to the country.
    I am not against all outsourcing. I think they are times when it cannot be avoided... short term. It does not speak well of the brain-trust however, when they cannot forsee that revenue loss to the American worker, is money not available to spend advancing this great nation. The potential for long-term growth and stability in industry and infrastructure is severely hampered by taking this nearsighted path.
    Fifteen years ago when the wheels of outsourcing really started rolling, I looked at it and saw it's ability for a negative outcome, if not done in moderation. The question is: Why could'nt they?
    No longer was balance needed in their approach. Profitable companies were allowed to close plants....(many of which were directly responsible for their success)... lay-off the workforce...only to emerge a few weeks later in cheap labor markets. One hundred percent profit was not enough, three hundred was better and justfied in their mind....regardless of long-term cost to the economic forcast. This is a prime example of "Just because you can do something, does'nt mean you should". Once it was allowed by few, the rest followed as they called it, "in an attempt to compete globally". We, the workers, were the losers.
    As I said earlier in this post, "I am not against all outsourcing". I do however, believe that oversight is needed to regulate the loss of American jobs and education potential. We've seen that if allowed CEOs will ravage and sack the nest without regard for the growth potential therein. I believe it is vital to impose stiff tariff on any U.S company which takes this path of firing US workers for cheap labor markets. You may say that they'll just pass on the cost. That's true....BUT....I'll say that if they do, then their prices will not reflect such a good value and will be on par with the companies that do remain here and employ American workers. If this happens (tariff), it will make the offenders think twice.
    No U.S based company should be allowed to fully outsource without penalty...unless it can prove (by opening up it's books to regulators) that without doing so, it is in danger of failing completely. In which case all is lost anyway. This is about long-term preservation. I advocate tax breaks for any company willing to keep Americans employed...afterall...it is our money the federal government is managing. It should be used to benefit us. I believe there needs to be a system in place to stem these loses.

    Your thoughts!!!
    Either you're for outsourcing or you're against outsourcing or you're a politician! Which is it APC? Pick a side my friend & we'll discuss it!

    What you must realize, regardless of the side of the fence your tail lands, is that outsourcing is ONLY a means of increasing profit-period! There is no plus side to it unless your name is Haji, live in Bangladesh & work for Dell! I won't get started on isolationism here but aviation isn't the only victim of outsourcing. From Billary's granting China "Normal Trade" status to NAFTA the American consumer & laborer has been skrewed, glued & tatooed by our own government!

    B
    Bubba Sez... May you always have a tail wind and keep your scarf out of your rudder...

  3. #3
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    Question

    As I said Bubba... some outsourcing is necessary...."short term"... but only until we can train people to do those task and ramp-up the machinery necessary. I certainly don't want to see us shipping jobs abroad and firing American workers, for products we can make today...yet it's happening all across the country with no penalties to the offenders. I tie education very closely to outsourcing. As an example: Companies claim that they can't find qualified people...yet won't invest money in the school system or offer apprenticeship programs to get folk ready to transition into the workplace. What's that all about???
    Last edited by APC900; 02-20-2009 at 08:25 PM.
    DoubleT

  4. #4
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    I won't get started on "isolationism", as Big B calls it, but let me just say this......the ONLY reason the USA grew from a wilderness inhabited by indigenous bands of nomad hunters and gatherers to being a super power in just under 200 years is the fact that we were ISOLATED from the outside world by God-given liquid boundaries on two sides....which, without, we never would have won the Revolutionary war. The whole global economy has made us weak in the knees mercenary merchants that would sell their own mothers to save a buck. There.....I said it.
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  5. #5
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    Thumbs up Bubba Sez... Now you rang the bell

    The Captain is right on here APC! We were a self-starting, self-made, self-sufficient nation who grew so strong that we began to share & help others who weren't as strong as us. Now the pendulum has swung so far past center that it has become the rule rather than the exception! But the reasons aren't benevolent as many may suspect, they're purely monitary & that my friend is what suchks about it.

    BTW, I still disagree with your "short term" theory. I have truly racked my brain looking for one instance where that could be true & I cannot think of one! We are so technologically advanced that I cannot think of one thing we need from another nation (And don't ANYONE suggest oil!) So I would offer that your "short term" ramp up would be more efficient & economical if we do it ourselves rather than start an outsourcing, build our needs, transition & take over the operation. Help me out here, give me an example...

    B
    Bubba Sez... May you always have a tail wind and keep your scarf out of your rudder...

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba1090 View Post
    BTW, I still disagree with your "short term" theory. I have truly racked my brain looking for one instance where that could be true & I cannot think of one! We are so technologically advanced that I cannot think of one thing we need from another nation (And don't ANYONE suggest oil!) So I would offer that your "short term" ramp up would be more efficient & economical if we do it ourselves rather than start an outsourcing, build our needs, transition & take over the operation. Help me out here, give me an example...

    B
    Try the steel industry. After the war, Japan had to rebuild most of it's 'bombed-out' steel plants. We, on the other hand, have not upgraded ours in decades. More alarming, is the fact that we've closed, or are in the process of closing what few remained. As a result, we are now dependent on Japan for most of our steel...to build everything from cars onward. Where is the bulk of your money going when that happens? When was the last time you opened your toolbox and found a "genuine" American-made tool? That's going the way of the dinosaurs. Want a good example? Take a look at the contracted pieces of the new sections of the Oakland/Bay bridge project here in San Francisco. We as a country, make up a very small part of the parts construction. Most of the steel is being shipped here from abroad. It's just being assembled here...probably under the oversight of foreign-borned engineers, with U.S workers doing the "grunt" work...(because some CEO outsourced their parents right out of a job)...and they could no longer pay for their kid's education. We don't have the steel plants or ability to produce those parts short term, but we should. Why are we not working to rectify that situation?
    Last edited by APC900; 09-29-2009 at 12:39 PM.
    DoubleT

  7. #7
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    Granted, it was a HUGE mistake to close those steel mills and force the displaced American workers to find other trades. But let's remember a few facts; One of the banes of the Japanese warship fleet in WWII was the poor quality steel their warships were constructed of; so full of flaws and slag that American artillery did far more damage than it should have. And you are correct about the rebuilding post-war, but who did they retool and model after.....guess? If we would throw this "global economy" crap in the scrap heap along with the liberals and tree-huggers and go back to being a SELF-SUFFICIENT industrial nation as we were, post WWII, we could once again rise to being a world leader rather than a debtor nation. Too many Americans are looking for a cruise down Easy Street today, afraid or unwilling to roll up their sleeves and dig in......they'd rather manage or supervise the project or import goods from third-world nations.
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